M I N U T E S
Ad Hoc Registry Consultant Subcommittee
Rutland Center Church and Cemetery Committeee
Thursday January 15, 2004 3:00-4:30 p.m
Oregon Historical Society

Interview Summaries
Deanna Penkiunas, Wisconsin Historical Society
Emily Pettis, Mead and Hunt, Inc.
Beth Miller, Independent historical consultant

       On January 15, 2004, Gerald Neath, Chuck Anthony, Cindy Bacon, Becca DuBey, Mike Schmudlach, Jean Hanson and Mark Hanson held three one-hour meetings with three individuals who might be able to help us with our goal of registering the Rutland Center Church and Cemetery with state and national historical registry programs.  Deanna Penkiunas, from the Wisconsin Historical Society Staff; Emily Pettis, a historical architectural consultant with Mead and Hunt; and Beth Miller, an independent historical consultant met with the ad hoc committee. 

        Mark and Jean will meet with Rutland Town Board on February 3rd to request permission to hire a consultant.   If the Board approves our proposal, the members of this ad hoc group will meet with the other members of the committee on February 5, 2004 to discuss the interviews and select the consultant who will help prepare our registry nomination.  The following were notes taken during each interview.

Deanna Penkiunas (Die-nah)
 Wisconsin Historical Society
608-264-6501
 djpenkiunas@whs.wisc.edu

Contacts at WHS:
  • Brian McCormick and Jim Sewell: preservation architects who work for the Wisconsin Historical Society (WHS).
  • Chip Brown: Compliance with units of government
  • Leslie Eisenberg: Head of burial sites office. Deirdre March is in that office.
  • Joe DeRose: Surveys of historical communities.
Advantage of Registering a property:
  • Government stamp of approval
  • Have plaque to post on property Can have an Informational sign from Dept. of Transportation
  • Registration:
    -Defines why building is important (ours is important to the history of religion in Wisconsin)
    -Establishes a Period of Significance: from when built to closure of use to congregation.
  • Want the building to have integrity to Period of Significance.
  • Helps with fund raising.  Is a declaration that the building is important.
  • Historical boundary will be part of registry and may protect graveyard from highway encroachment.
When building is owned by unit of government:
  • Township cannot object to listing the building
  • If this building is listed while owned by township, any work or alternations would have to come for consultation through the WHS office.
  • Encourages appropriate rehabilitation. Doesn't matter who does work. Have to comply with state statutes with regard to historic buildings. Dept. of Interior guidelines are the official guidelines for rehabilitating historic structures. Guidelines are on the web.
Goals for Restoration:
  • Repair rather than replace. Replace in kind.
  • Storm windows are OK.
Assistance from WHS:
  • Access to architectural staff is a part of this. No charge for consult
Grant Possibilities:
  • There are grant possibilities. WHS is developing a website which will help find grants and loans.  But it is difficult to get grant money for religious buildings.
  • Certified government units: can help one get grants, but we are not certified government unit. See Gerry Neath on this.
Nomination Process: State review board staff receives nomination.  It is put in queue for review.  State review board meets, votes.  We are then "registered" and nomination is sent to feds.  Note: The listing belongs to the building, not the unit of government or our committee.  Can't be removed by us, but can be by the Historical Society.  Could be removed if it is torn down or changed drastically.  If they deeded the committee the building and land to the Committee, it would have to come with deed restrictions.
Use of a consultant: Writing a national register nomination is often a lot more work than most people anticipate it will be.  Anyone can do it. Depends on how quickly one wants it to happen.  Have to be comfortable with architectural language.  Need to use the terminology.  There are two guide books that come with the form.  When people do their own, they come to the office for lots of back and forth.  Her office tries to help who do their own.  Chance of getting it approved is not necessarily better if you use a consultant.  The merits of the property is what matters.  Does it meet criteria or not?   Every year between one and four do their own nomination papers (out of forty received).
Photo quality requirements Are non-negotiable.  Must be black and white. She recommends black and white film, processing and paper. "They're real sticky."
State review board: 15 members with various skills, archeologists, historians, architects, etc.  Staffers help review questionnaire early on to save labor later.  Dept of Interior handles national registration. Can take a year for whole process.
Consultants: Anyone can advise us on building or engineering issues.  There are a number of firms who do this.
Timelines for repair: Don't have to wait until registration is approved or rejected before getting on with repairs.  Best to talk with Brian and Jim before doing any work.  Condition when actually submitting is what matters, not pictures and descriptions from before the repairs.  Wouldn't want to have the building up on blocks at the time the committee wants to looks at it.  Would cause a delay.
Modifications: Adding electricity and other things to make the building useable are OK.  For this building, one wouldn't want to add Victorian moldings.  Basement would be possible.  The understanding is that people use buildings and buildings have to change.  What elements tell you about its history?  You'd want to keep pews. Need to update to make them useable is understood and allowed.  Maintain original appearance is the key.  Even Williamsburg buildings have air conditioning and electricity, but it's done very carefully and very well.
Public Access: Not necessarily required.
Architectural Integrity: Specific questions about what we might do or add are best addressed to the two architectural consultants, Brian McCormick and Jim Sewell.  Opens a discussion to interpreting the building to a particular period.  Can't add a porch if it was added in 1930 and we are recreating 1870.
Cemetery Integrity: Registering would help in case road in front of it were to be widened.  Each listing includes a historical boundary. Transportation dept doesn't like to have to deal with such boundaries.  Counties must comply also.
Emily Pettis
Mead and Hunt, Inc.
She is in Historic Preservation dept.
6501 Watts Rd. Madison 53519-2700
273-6380 Fax 273-6391
emily.pettis@meadhunt.com
Background: Firm has done dozens.  Experienced with the process.  Company presenting nine tomorrow to the Board.  Good relationship with state office.  Can work through issues.

Possible to retain firm for a portion of the process as a way of saying money.  Usually do the entire nomination from start to process.
Survey: Condition, photos, needed to write narrative description.  Walls, foundation, windows, landscape.
Hold off on nomination if doing repairs: She suggests holding off on nomination until repairs and alterations are complete.

Work with the staff about proposed changes, alterations and repairs before submitting application.
National requirements Are very rigorous and must be consistent and accurate.  Nominations written by her company have not been denied.
Work to be done for this church: Would depend on work that has already been done.  Would shave some time.  Size of building doesn't necessarily matter.
Costs and Fee: Would submit a proposal with rates and expense costs (photos, etc.), mileage. Would be able to use materials Jerry and others have done and all work done by Mead and Hunt would be ours.  Could use our photos.  Would consider our offer to do certain tasks in order to save money.  Note: On January 22, Mark and Jean received a proposal from Ms. Pettis stating that her fee for this project would be $4312.
Process: Takes about 90 days to get it ready.  Then up to a year or more before it's approved.  State meets four times a year, with the next one January 16, 2004.
Photo guidelines: Are spelled out.  5x7 or 8x10 etc.  Should be on the website.  Six to eight images.  Architectural details; at least one interior.  Shot of the outbuilding.  Shot of the cemetery.
Elizabeth "Beth" Miller
4033 Tokay Blvd.
Madison, WI 535711
233-5942
Independent consultant
Background: Has done the Red Brick School House nomination.  Has been working for 20 years, completed over 1000 nominations and had no rejection yet.
Listing not necessary for protection: Listing with the registry is primarily honorary.  There is no tax advantage.  It's primarily the recognition.  Grants have been available for bricks and mortar, but not for years, unfortunately.  Registration would provide some protection from highway expansion.  Building would be eligible for certain protections even if not listed.  Thus, if a highway project came along, the cemetery and building must be taken into account, whether listed or not.
State architects: Can take advantage of state architects without being listed.  They can help with what to do.
Costs and Fees: $1200 for the whole process.  Includes: documentation, research, architectural description, comparison with other similar buildings, b/w photos and color slides; presentation to board; corrections/revisions required by Board.  Possible to charge less if a lot of research is done. (Gerald Neath has done a lot of good research.)  She would like to do the photography.  Would be hard to say how much less she would charge until getting into the project.  Could end up being about $1000 with deductions for using Neath's work.
Timeline: Will take about two months to prepare, because she is teaching at Falk.
Advantage: To doing concurrently because feds like to see original condition.
Working on the foundation: Should not impede the process, in her opinion.  She agrees we should talk with the architects.
Old Gazetteers at Oregon Historical Society: A volume published just after turn of century (1909) has old school houses.  Might help us establish the look of the porch.
Historical accuracy: Would recommend Jim Dreger (national consultant) look at the pictures.  He will know if there is anything like this that might still have a porch or steps or stoop.
Starting time: Could start in February and finish in April.
State registry committee meets: Four times a year: January, April, July and October.

Prepared by Mark Hanson
January 25, 2004

Return to Minutes Menu